[세션] 토스증권 INVESTORS 25 모건 하우절_1차_오디오

Creation time: Jul 10,2025 03:09:34 PM

Duration: 37mins 17s

Word count: 35647

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Speaker 1 (00:32)

저는 시작하고 뒤에서 여러분 뒤통수만 한두 번 봤는데 앞에서 보니까 이런 느낌이었군요? 인베스트 트웬티 파이브 함께 해주신 여러분, 너무너무 감사하고요. 특별히 이 세션을 위해서 아직은 평일인데 함께 오신 여러분 준비하신 모순 손길 대표께서 감사의 말씀 전해드리겠습니다. 저는 진행을 맡은 유튜버 천재 이승국 본명 이승국이구요, 오늘 오신 분들 각자 정말 기대하시는 게 많을 것 같아요. 혹은 책은 다들 읽어보신 분들일까요? 대답 안 하시는 분 포함해서 어느 정도 분들이 읽으신지 알 것 같고요. 각자의 기대, 각자의 고민, 각자의 생각이 있으실 것 같지만 여러분의 성향이 다 다르다 보니까 저희는 저희가 할 수 있는 커버리지 내에서 우리 대화 나눠보도록 하겠습니다. 저에게 허락된 시간이 뭐 길다면 길고 짧다면 짧기 때문에 바로 소개하도록 하겠습니다.정말 훌륭한 두 책을 우리에게 선제해 주신 분이죠. 돈의 심리학, 그리고 불변의 법칙을 선사해 주신 작가 모건하워즈에게 여러분 큰 박수 부탁드립니다.Now you're speaking in English, OK?Now I can understand, yeah.Sorry for the inconvenience. These are the heavy users and great users of Total Security. And you know, this is a Thursday, so it's ve

ry hard for them to be here at this time. So do you want to say anything in particular to say hi to these users of Total Security? Thank you so much for having me. It's an honour to be here. I love coming to Korea and this is a really cool group. This is a really cool venue too, so thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this. Thank you. Thank you. For me, I've talked to people in English, English from time to time, but it's always difficult to speak English in front of Korean audience. But for you, meeting global audience is a frequent thing, right? You you got go to global places from time to time. Yeah, I do. I do quite a bit of this speaking in different countries. And what I

think is so interesting about it too, is obviously I I, I write all of my books through the lens of an American investor because that's who I am. But it's interesting when you go to different countries, you realize that even though American culture is different, the economy is different, companies are different, the emotions and the behaviours that people experience are exactly the same all over the world. And so even if we have a different culture and economy, greed and fear is the same in America as it is in China, as it is in Europe, as it is in Australia, as it is in Korea. Risk is, is the same. Overconfidence is the same everywhere you go, Like, and when you find something that is the

same between cultures, you found something that is very, very important because it's just something that is, That's how humans work. That's how humans think. And so I'm always most interested in, yes, there are differences in between our economies, but the similarities that we have, those are the most important things because, you know, that's just an enduring part of how people think and how people behave. That's exactly what we find so fascinating about your work. Like when you read your book, I'm sure many of you have written, read, read this book. It seems like when you first look at the cover of the book, it seems like it's going to make me rich. It's going to make me what money is. Bu

t when you actually read it, it not only talks about the money, but it really like helps you have an insight of what life is, what kind of life we should live. So when you're writing that book, did you know that your book will be influential in Asian countries career as well? No, I mean, I, I had no idea when I was when I was writing it, that it would do that. But I've always thought that I write for an audience of one, which is myself. So I really don't think about other people when I'm writing it, let alone other countries. But I always just thought if I can be introspective about how I think about money and how I invest and what I see, and then if I can write a story about it that I enjo

y, maybe somebody else will enjoy it as well. So I guess to answer your question, I never really thought about other readers. I just try to write things that I think will be interesting and then I hope other people will like them too. Then what is the most shocking or surprising response or reaction you got from other cultures, other countries with your book?One of the things.No, yeah, one of the things that a criticism of it that I think is a valid criticism is similar to what I said earlier. I wrote it through the lens of an American investor. And then so other countries might look at that and say, well, what you just wrote is might be valid in America, but it's not valid in in China or in

South Africa, wherever, wherever it might be, because there are differences in how the economy works, how investing works. Investing in the stock market is huge in the United States, almost 60% of Americans own stocks, 60% it's huge. And in other countries it's very, very low, much, much lower than that. And so I, I do think it's a valid criticism to say things that I think are true and even things that I might pretend are like universal are, are unique to America. And I, I think that's, but I think the insight from that is that everybody sees the world through their own little lens. True. And the world that I see in my mind, that's like the truth. That's how it works. But it's different f

or everybody. Everyone sees the world through their own lens. Yeah. Yeah, like I just said, everybody has their own lenses. But like you said previously, we all have common knowledge and common feeling about certain things if you greed and such. So today we're not going to talk about certain numbers, which stuff to buy, when to sell it. We're not going to cover that. We're going to talk about the common things we find in our human behaviour and what he wrote with his book. So basically we're going to talk about the principles we can hold on to without whichever strategy you have. So to do that, we're going to talk about our first point, which is designing your own game. You cover this in yo

ur book too. When you think about this term, designing your own game, it sounds quite abstract at first, but as far as I understood it, it's about building your own habit, your own strategy. Because like I said, everybody has different ideas about how to spend money and earn money, so you have to come up the strategy that suits you the best. That's my understanding. You have given this topic a big thought, so let's just set the ground, Ground rule first. There are many games played by great minds in economic field. Why should you have our own game rather than just follow other games? I think it's, it's natural to assume that like in most fields, there's one right answer for everybody. So in

math, 2 + 2 = 4, no matter who you are, where you're from, it's the same answer for everybody. And I think we assume that money and investing is like that, that there is one right answer that we should all try to find, but it's not, that's not how it is. And I know a lot of people in this room are, are traitors. And in the United States, a lot of people are like long term investors. Neither one of those is right or wrong. It's just a different game, just like basketball and football. They're just different games with different rules. And I think a lot of damage, a lot of bad decisions happen in investing when you are trying to take your cues, get your information from somebody who's playin

g a different game than you are. So if I'm a long term investor and, and you're a traitor, news that is relevant to you might be completely irrelevant to me and vice versa. So there might be things that I write and I say that are good, good information for me, but not relevant to you. And that's OK. But to, to grapple that to, to, to grasp that you have to understand the game that you're playing and clearly define the game that you're playing. And so I want to be a long term investor for the next 50 years. And so when I'm seeking information and seeking ideas and data and whatnot, I, I, I really need to keep that game in mind. It's such a simple and basic concept, but I think you'd be surpr

ised how few investors can actually articulate what game they're playing and actually say like, here's what I'm trying to do and here's why it's different for everyone. And there are so many different games that you can play, not just in investing, but with money and savings. And so there are a lot of people who think the idea of dying with a lot of money is, is terrible that you know, that you that's just wasted money and all the all the vacations that you could have taken. I in general think, think you could be a great thing to leave money to your children to charity when I think that could be. I think that's wonderful. And neither one of those is right or wrong. You just have to figure o

ut what game you're playing. And most bad financial decisions happen because you made you made a decision that was good for someone else but not for you. Like it's it's not because you made a bad decision, it's because you made a decision that was right for somebody else but not for you. That happens all the time with money. Yeah, I can really relate to that. And as a Korean, I think many of us can relate to that because not I didn't, I think we don't have it anymore. But back in the old days, we used to have that, you know, Seoul University is the number one university in Korea. So we used to have a learning method that made someone go to Seoul University. So one guy made it to Seoul Unive

rsity. He wrote a book about it. I, I taught myself in this method and it made me as soon as Seoul University students and everybody tried to follow that. But like I said, in fact everybody has different environment like the room environment, the family environment at the time you can spend in learning yourself, it's all different. So what I understand from what you just said is understanding and asserting the fact that we are all different is really, really important. But The thing is we see everybody others returns, the short return, any strategy like I said, if you want to go with the long term strategy on that way we see other strategies making quick monies everyday. So comparing ourselv

es with other strategy, it's inevitable and it's really temptations. How do we keep ourselves away from comparing ourselves to the others? Well, it's, it's almost impossible to get ahead and investing if you suffer from FOMO, fear of missing out when you're, you're kind of jealous of other people and how quickly they're, they're making money. And because specifically because there are so many games to play in investing, there is always, at any given time, there will be somebody who is getting richer faster than you, who's doing better than you are always, There's never a time when that's not the case. And I, I think it's, you have to be able to look at somebody and say, I am perfectly fine w

atching you make a lot of money doing something that I don't know how to do. That doesn't bother me whatsoever. And some people are more susceptible to it than others. But what FOMO is, is outsourcing your critical thinking to the emotions of other people. That's really what you're doing. And you're watching somebody else get rich. And it's like you're you don't want to copy it because it's a good idea necessarily just because you get envious of how much money that they're making. It's impossible to do well over time doing that way. And some of the best investors in the world will go through periods of years when by comparison to others, they don't look that good. And if you're not willing

to do that, I think it's almost impossible to do well as an investor. OK, then let's go a little bit specific into the steps. Now we can accept the fact that we have to make our own games. We have to concern our lives, our strategy for making our own money. But again, as Asian cultures, society and as Koreans, we are really adaptive to the certain environment. We are really good rule followers. But when it comes to making something creative things out of nowhere, it's not particularly our strong points because that's how it taught our through our education system. So if you can give you a hint of how to start building your own games, how do we start that? Where do we start it? Well. It's in

teresting of that. What we just said is that it tends to be true that in the United States that we're very good at entrepreneurship. We're not very good at manufacturing and processing. And like, if you take a group of Americans and you say, come up with a new system for how to like, try to imagine a new product, we're very good at that. But if you say, here are the steps to build this product, we're not, we're not any good at that whatsoever. So every, every country has their own strengths and weaknesses. And I think that's like what makes a global economy so powerful is specialization of talent. Like Americans are good at entrepreneurship, Chinese are good at manufacturing. Like every, ev

ery country has their own little skill like that. And it's true for people as well. And one of the, one of the keys for getting ahead in life is not necessarily understanding what you're good at. It's understanding what you are not good at and staying away from it and staying far away from it. And you see this recent examples of Elon Musk, for example, Elon Musk, the greatest entrepreneur of our time, thought he would be really good at politics and kind of enter the Trump administration. And it was a complete failure. I, I, I, I don't think that's an exaggeration, but there are so many examples of that, of people who are really good at one thing thinking that because they're smart, because

they're rich, they should be good at this other thing. And that's always a disaster. And there are a lot of examples of that. Henry Ford was the greatest mechanical engineer probably of all time. He was at best a mediocre businessman. And in his personal life, he was terrible. Steve Jobs, greatest creative genius of our time, terrible boss, monster of a boss, You did not want to work for him. So there's so many examples of that. I tend to think that if people are abnormally good at one thing, they tend to be abnormally bad at something else. Like the skills tend to balance out. So understanding what you're good at is important. Understanding what you are incapable of and not good at, I thi

nk it's more important. So basically it's it's about knowing your limitations, like how much you can endure holding on to some strategy and what kind of weaknesses you have. So it seems like we're talking about money and strategy, but we are also talking, it seems like we are also talking about the life. So designing your own game also means learning your life, designing your life, what to do with that? How how do you want to live your life and use money to fulfill their life? Is it? Is it what you're saying? Yeah, I think I, I always wanted to think with writing that if all I was writing about was money and investing, that that wasn't that interesting. It had to be like a larger life philo

sophy that you could, that you could do, because the purpose of money is to use it as a tool to live a better life. That's what you wanted. That's what investing for. You're investing to gain more money and you want more money as a tool to live a better life. So of course there has to be some larger life philosophy built into this of what you want to do. And so for me, kind of the game that I want to play is I want to be independent. I want to use money for independence. I want to wake up every day and say I can do whatever I want today, even if what I want to do is go to work and write what not, it's on my own terms. I'm independent. And so it's not just, it's not just money and spreadshee

ts, it's a much larger philosophy of what kind of life you want to live. Yeah, I got that. And sorry for any inconvenience while using the interpreter machine because, because so immersive with our conversation, we might have speaking so quickly, so quickly for the interpreters to do their job. So sorry for any inconvenience if there has been any isolation and before we go we before we go on for to upload the work the interpreters are doing for last 20 minutes. I say this because in Korea and in front of us, the the writers told me to slow it down because we are speaking too rapidly. We'll slow down.Sorry for that. So yeah, we just covered the designing our own game is also about thinking a

bout your life. Then I think it's a good way to go to our next point, which is compounding begins when timing stops ruling you. You said long term investment quite a lot even in this conversation. And you also have this philosophy you, you can get that from your book that you are a long term investor. But for Koreans, like like I said, every culture has different pace in their life. For Korean investors, it's really easy for us to think as think investing as short term strategy. We want to have a quick result, a quick return. That's how we seize the market in default setting. So my first question is, is believing in magic of time and believing in compounding magic worth the wait comparing y

ou to the short term strategies? I think those two can go hand in hand. Even if you are a short term trader, how much money you're going to make over the course of your life is going to be determined on how many years you're doing it for. And so I use the example of Warren Buffett, the most successful investor of all time. You know, if you include the money he's given away to charity, he's made half a trillion dollars as an investor. Just he's the best ever. And 99% of his net worth was accumulated after his 60th birthday, after he was 60. That's 99% of his money came after he was 60. And so you look at his life and you say, is Warren Buffett a good investor? Yes, of course he's a good inves

tor. But the whole secret is that he was a good investor, has been a good investor for 80 years. And if he had retired when he was 60, like a normal person, nobody would have ever heard of him. I think the whole thing is that he had been doing it for so long. And for all investors, what's going to matter for your lifetime returns is not how much you earn in any given year, it's how many years you can keep it going for. So even if you're trading, what's going to matter is not necessarily what your returns are this year. It's can you earn those returns next year and the year after and the year after and next decade and the decade after that. That's what really matters. And why that's importan

t is because if you can be good for one year, that's that's, that's great. If you can be average for five years, that's amazing. If you can be average for 10 or 20 years, that's unbelievable. And so it's not necessarily the annual returns that you earn, it's how long can you keep it going for. Like endurance is all that matters in investing. And endurance and keeping for a long time is what's what's make what makes us really troubled because it's a true story. It's my story. Sorry for talking about myself a little bit. You mentioned this in your book too. Opportunity cost is such a such a stressful idea because. Like years ago when I started trading in stocks I I realised I have to talk car

e of my personal finance so I jumped into trading market. So as a heavy gamer just out of friendly gesture I just bought NVIDIA stocks and years later I'm making. I just checked it out in backstage. I made about 1200% profit out of it. Congratulations.But but I didn't have enough. I just, I just bought the stock because I liked it. So I only spent about 5 bucks on it. So I didn't, I, I did make money, but I didn't make that much money. So when I think the result sheet, it's a spreadsheet I have, I don't get happy. Like I can only think of what if, what if I've spent all my fortune on this stock? What kind of money should I make? Like I can only think of it. So I can never be happy with the

result. I think the idea of opportunity cost and the missed opportunity is really, really, really what hinders us from going to long term investment and believing in the compounding strategy. If you meet someone like me, what do you want to say to them? The first thing is my guess is you only put $5 into it because you didn't actually believe in it. True, That's that's probably what it was, right. And the other thing that's important is that if you're a stock picker or a trader, if you can be right 60% of the time, that's really good, which means you're going to be wrong 40% of the time. That's if you're good. And so the idea that you're going to make trades and pick stocks that don't work

out, that's that's how it works. And that's true for everybody. Back to Warren Buffett, he said that he's owned 500 stocks in his lifetime, and he's made virtually all of his money on 10 of them of the 500 that he's owned. So that's always how it works for people. And so the idea of I made this trade, but like it didn't work out as well as I thought that you have to get used to. Nobody is going to happen. Nobody has a 100% success rate. The best traders in the world are probably 60%. That's a great way of putting it. But still, yeah, thank you for saying that. But still, I just wanted to wanted the past version of me to put more, a little bit more money in the MPDI because I don't get I don

't get happy sometimes watching it. That's a joke. So we're talking about ruling a timing. Right now we are talking about long term investment and long term strategy. But I think it's linked to the previous question. But still what we think as Korean market traders, what we think about constantly is what should I buy, what should I sell, when do I do it, when do I do it, when should I do it? It's the opposition with the timing right, finding the right timing. But you like, have emphasis on the long term, long term strategy. How do you get off? How do you escape the obsession of the timing fight? I'm sorry to put it the wrong way in English, but yeah. No, I think one way that I think about i

t is I'm an optimist on the long term. I think the world's going to be a much better place 20 years from now, 30 years from now. But I I want to be a realistic optimist. And so I think the path between now and then will be very difficult. Lots of setbacks and recessions and wars and pandemics. And so you can be very optimistic about the long term, but still be cognizant of how hard the short term is going to be. And the thing about it is that nobody know has any idea when the next set back is going to occur. I mean, you think the biggest events, at least in the US economy over the last 20 years were September 11th, Lehman Brothers collapsed and COVID. And the common denominator between all

of those is that nobody saw them coming. Nobody predicted them. And it will be the same for the next three big crises. The biggest economic news story of the next year is something that nobody's talking about today. It is always like that. There's never been a time when that's not the case, when the biggest news story in hindsight was predictable. It's never happened. And so because of that, the idea that you can foresee what the next big risk is and then trade around it is extremely difficult. True. So as I invest, and I'm not saying that you should invest this way, everybody's different, but I'm very optimistic over the next 20 years. But I know that the next crisis it's going to be. So it

's impossible to predict the path between now and then. Even if I'm very confident that's going to be higher. What's going to like might have a major recession this year, obviously trade wars right now that virtually nobody saw coming. And so there's such a long history of that of you can be optimistic but have no idea when the volatility is going to strike. I think your answer really just connects to my next points, which is the third one. You talked about risk. Our last point is uncertainty is an inevitable part of the system. You mentioned it in your book too. When we think of uncertainty, we just want to avoid it. We hate it. We think it as a risk we should go round. But in your book an

d many other pockets you did with without interviews, you say this is the cost we have to. We have the price we have to pay for the long term journey. So what kind? What is the important mind shift? Should we have to look it that way? You cannot avoid uncertainty rather than you have to embrace it. How do you shift our minds towards that? Well, I think the simplest is to view volatility as the cost of admission. That's the price you get like enduring, putting up with volatility is the price you have to pay in order to do well over the long run. And of course you can make a lot of money in stocks, but like everything else in life, there's a cost involved. There's a price tag to that. And the

price tag is putting up with a never ending chain of uncertainty that stocks might earn a lot this year, they might go down a lot this year. You have no idea. And so when you view it as a cost of admission, then when there is volatility, it becomes I I think it's easier to endure when you don't view it as I screwed up, politicians screwed up, central bank screwed up. You view it as, yeah, this is not fun, but it's the cost of admission that I have to be willing to pay and put up with to do well over time. I think it's a very subtle mindset shift, but it it makes enduring it much easier because so many investors all over the world, whenever there's any kind of market volatility, view it as a

mistake, view it as a crisis that they should avoid, that they should try to trade around. And I think that's, that's a dangerous way to think about risk. It's much it's much more realistic to become durable and endure risk rather than assuming that you can avoid it. We keep mentioning endurance going into the long journey, but The thing is, it's really like it's hard for us to see like differentiate whether one thing is a mistake or one thing is a wrong decision. How do you tell about like, oh, this is time? OK, let me put it this way, Going to a long journey and knowing that this is just admission fee you have to pay. I'm really sorry. I just forgot my question. I was always going to rai

se a question. Sorry, give me, give me 10 seconds. I'm going to raise a really big question for you. I, I, I have something to say about it?Sorry, sorry.Let me get let me get back to it later. If I come up with an idea. Let me just ask you the next question I was going to ask you. How do you know when to reset button? Like like I said in a book, we'd like to go on a long journey if he gives a stable money. But at the same time, you also said we have to change our strategies from from time to time. So it feels like being in dual with uncertainty and changing in the course of events is a conflicting idea. So when do you know is the right moment to shift our minds to the new strategy or this i

s the time to endure? How do you differentiate that? I'll give you one good example of this. The most influential investing book ever written is The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. He first wrote it in the 1930s when it was first published, and it was Warren Buffett's biggest inspiration. He learned so much from it and there were I think 4 editions of The Intelligent Investor that were written in every edition. The formulas that he proposed of like, here's how you should pick stocks. He threw all the formulas out and came up with brand new ones because every 10 years he'd be like, hey, the formulas that used to work don't work anymore. And so if you're reading an early edition of th

e of the Intelligent Investor, the way that he's telling you invest is not relevant at all anymore. It's that is many decades outdated. And so if you're a trader, the strategies that will work have a short shelf life. You know, they might work for a year or a couple years at at most and then other people catch on to them and they don't work as well. I think if you're a long term investor, it's a little bit different because the bet that I'm making is that people will wake up and try to be more productive tomorrow than they were today. And it's hard to imagine that not being the case 30 years from now. Of course, there are things that could set that back and it could take longer than I thin

k. But depending on how you're investing, depending on what bet you're making, how frequently you need to update, that is, is so if you're a trader, you might need to update your strategy every year. But if you're a long term investor, I think it's a much more enduring way to go about it. One other thing that has to do with like changing your mind is I think the best definition of risk is just what you are going to regret in the future. What are you most likely to look back when you're on your deathbed and looking back and say, I wish I had not done that or I wish I'd done more of that? And that's different for everybody. And it changes throughout your life. And so heaven forbid, if I were o

n my deathbed tomorrow, I would not regret having saved money over the years. I would not say, oh, all the vacations that I didn't take and whatnot. I would have so much pleasure and pride and say like all that savings is now going to help my wife and kids. But 30 years from now I might not think that anymore because my hopefully my kids are on their own and and and stable and supporting themselves. So what you're going to regret changes throughout your own life too. So it's always evolving. But I think always asking yourself, what are you likely to regret? Daniel Kahneman, the great psychologist, he made this point. He said to do well in investing, you need a well calibrated sense of your

future regret. And for a lot of people, if they make a trade and it doesn't work, they, they don't regret that, that's fine. A lot of people it would, it would ruin them psychologically and financially. So everyone has a different level of, of, of, of regret. And I think there are a lot of people, maybe people in this room who could not invest the way that I do because it would be too boring. They, they, they couldn't put up with it. And so you might regret investing the way that I do, even if it's right for me. So regret is a very personalized metric, but I think that's the best definition of risk. Yeah, the ideal future regret is really I think I think it's one of the most important thing

both in investing in life. Then I just remember the the question I wanted to ask you like again, you mentioned in duo and I think you have strong belief in long term strategy as we can all see right now. Were you always like that or did you kind of like get to this conclusion that for me this is the best way? When did you learn it? Because we have to learn when to learn about ourselves. So when did you know that this strategy works with the best? How did you learn to? How did you learn your game? Well, back to everyone is kind of a product of, of the culture that they live in. Long term investing has worked well in the United States. It hasn't worked well in some other cultures. So am I jus

t a product of, of the view that I've seen? Yes. You know, that's just, it's worked in the US more than it's worked in other places. But I think more than that, it was watching so many different kinds of traders. There are a lot of very successful traders who know what they're doing, probably many in this room, but there are a lot who who, who don't. It just, it just seemed like there some of the people who I did, it's felt like there was the most the the least amount of intellectual rigor were from people who are had trading strategies and they seemed like they were much more emotional than a lot of other investors. And so just watching other people understanding my own personality and the

n defining the bet that I want to make, I think led me there. The other thing is I don't like trading in markets as much as maybe some people in this room. I want to spend my time writing and thinking of stories and whatnot. That's what I that's what I enjoy. And I think that that that that's my skill. And but some people love watching financial markets all day. And so for them, it's the right thing to do. But me, I wanted to say what is like the least amount of effort that I can put into it while achieving my goals so I can use money as a tool to live a better life. OK, then let's assume that some of us used to be the short term investor but realised our long term investment should be the w

ork I should be exploring. What can you tell them? Like you said, it's much for you. It's much more stable path rather than like updating all the news that's going on in the short term strategy. But still you said something about history of end of history illusion in other interviews. That means you can also change. You mentioned that too. Your mindset might change. So going to a long term investment, when is the time you know that? Oh, I might have to think it from other point of view. How do you know that? I think it, I think to be a long term investor, you cannot have FOMO because there's always going to be traders who are doing much better than you are this year and like way better than

you are. And if that bothers you, it's not going to work to be a long term investor. I think that's, I think that's one of them. I think it's, I think it depends on what economy you're investing into as well. I think there are not just investing strategies, but some economies are much more long term oriented than others. And so venture capital for, for example, you know, you're making, those are 10 year bets that you're making on companies, whereas for a, a public stock market, sometimes you're making 10 minute bets on, on companies. Just a just a very different, different strategy. I started out as a trader, you know, early on, I used to be a day trader when I, when I first began. And I t

hink between a combination of of watching other people like who who inspired me as an investor, I was much more, I was much more and more impressed with the people that who are investing in companies that they could leave it alone for 20 years than I were the ones because I was more interested in business than it was in markets. And so the idea of investing in a good business that you can leave it alone for 20 years was much more appealing than the structure of a market where you're just flipping back and forth. If you haven't mind about your strategy yet, I think his answer might give you the good insight about how to view your strategies. And my last official question is about our audience

today. Like I told you, the audience today is the great users of total securities. There are our royal audiences, some of them trade a lot through total securities. Some of them share the insights on the community or sometimes it's the long term users of this total securities, meaning all of us has different type of investment and different kind type of view in their lives. If you meet this different type of people at once, but if you believe there's still one principle principle they can all hold onto, what would that be? You have to understand your own behaviour more than anything else. No matter how you invest long term, short term trading, long term investing, you have to understand yo

urself, your own risk tolerance, what your, your own sense of regret. And it's like investing is a very individualistic game. And I think the more time you spend looking in the mirror, so to speak, trying to figure out who you are and less time staring at the stock ticker, the stock chart, I think that then then I think the better you're likely to do. It's all a game of introspection and understanding your own behaviors and other, other people's behaviors. Like that's, that's most important no matter how you invest. Again, I hope that would be a great insight for you today, learning about yourself rather than watching at the trade market.